We’re Not Listening And You Can’t Make Us!

http://truthwatch.info/articles/were-not-listening/

Answering the Objections of Modern Apostles, Prophets, and Their Defenders – by Keith Gibson

In dealing with the new “apostles” and “prophets” as well as with their followers, one quickly encounters a problem. They do not wish to listen. In fact, the “prophetic movement” has developed an entire series of pat answers and knee-jerk reactions to those raising concerns about their teachings that makes any substantive dialogue on the actual issues themselves virtually impossible. Not only have modern prophets filled the church with extra-biblical and unbiblical revelations and doctrines, leading many away from the pure faith, but they have also insulated themselves from any correction by the larger body of Christ. These straw-men arguments and red herrings… must be refuted before any significant progress can be made on the larger issues.

The Martyrdom Complex

Martyrdom is a powerful symbol in religion. The person claiming martyr status becomes untouchable, unquestionable. Further, it immediately positions the one doing the challenging as evil, a Nazi, or worse… I have noticed a similar trend among many within the prophetic movement… To confront them is to persecute them.

Prophetess Victoria Boyson does this repeatedly. In two different prophetic messages (“The Religious Spirit that Seeks to Convince Us It Is God” and “Warriors of Truth”) she claims that those who “speak against” other Christians release demonic activity against their lives.

Or consider the words of Rick Joyner:

Two ministries go on continually before God’s throne: One is the ministry of intercession, the other is accusation… Satan…is called “the accuser of the brethren,” and we are told that his ministry goes on “day and night” before the throne of God (Rv. 12:10). How can Satan continue to accuse the saints before God if he has been thrown out of heaven and no longer has access to the throne? The answer: Satan uses the saints, who do have access to the throne, to do this diabolical work for him. (A Prophetic Vision for the 21st Century, Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1999, pp.38-39)

Moving past Joyner’s interesting speculation that it is actually through the words of Christians that Satan accuses the brethren before the throne, the central point is obvious: any form of criticism is the devil’s work… Joyner deflects any and all criticism by attributing it to satanically inspired persecution. In his ["visionary"] book The Final Quest, upon seeing a vast army of Christians under the control of the devil, Joyner hears the voice of the Lord state, “This is Satan’s ultimate deception. His ultimate power of destruction is released when he uses Christians to attack one another.” [The result of all this] is that no meaningful dialogue can take place when one of the parties is playing the victim. Even in the culture at large, victims get a pass.

The New Testament, however, does not support this assumption that disagreeing with a teacher’s doctrine is tantamount to persecuting them. There are numerous examples of the apostles warning against false teachers and even at times calling them out by name in order to protect the rest of the body–and this is never equated with persecution (2 Timothy 1:15, 17-18; 4:9, 14-15; 1 Corinthians 15; 3 John 9, etc…).

Appeal to Unity

Another common tactic employed by today’s prophets and apostles is to accuse those who attempt to correct false doctrine of being divisive, of sowing discord among the brothers. In his book Overcoming Evil in the Last Days, Joyner impugns the motives of those who would dare to be concerned about false teaching creeping into the church: “Although this spirit usually comes in the guise of protecting the sheep, the truth, or the Lord’s glory, it is an evil, critical spirit that will always end up causing division and destruction.”

Unity within the body is very important. Jesus prayed that we may be one just as He and the Father are one. Paul makes a powerful appeal for unity in Ephesians 4. It is a serious issue. But biblical unity is a unity based on truth, not in opposition to it. The Bible does not advocate peace at any price…

“You’re a Pharisee!”

Joyner devotes an entire third of Overcoming Evil to the subject of the “religious spirit”:

The Lord had little trouble with demons while He walked on earth. They quickly recognized His authority and begged for mercy. It was the conservative, zealous, religious community that immediately became His greatest enemy. Those who were the most zealous for the Word of God crucified the Word Himself when He became flesh to walk among them. The same is still true [today]. (Destiny Image Publishers, 2003, pp. 133)

…Because Joyner mentions no names specifically, he can feel that he is staying above the fray and is not guilty of the very thing that he is condemning. In Joyner’s system, to stand squarely on the truth of God’s Word is to be a Pharisee and a potential enemy of God, even worse trouble than a demon…

The charge of being a Pharisee is extremely emotionally powerful–for the Pharisees stand among the worst of the bad guys in the NT. This is doubly true when it is combined with the rhetoric that it was the Pharisees who killed Christ. Mike Bickle demonstrates this attack well when he states, “It was the ones pressing into biblical orthodoxy that murdered Christ.” So, to be passionate about the truth is to be a Pharisee and a Christ-killer…

Were the Pharisees those who were biblically orthodox?… A careful study of Scripture [reveals that] the problem with the Pharisees is not that they held the Scriptures in too high esteem, but rather they were perfectly willing to cancel them out in favor of their own doctrines… (Matthew 15:1-9, John 5:45-47)… The problem was not their adherence to the Bible but rather their adherence to their own doctrines, devised by men… We see much the same thing happening in the prophetic movement. We see a host of teachers inventing new doctrines that are completely unsubstantiated by Scripture and then presenting them as fact even if they contradict the direct teachings of the Word of God… It is not those who cling to the revealed truth of God found in the Scripture who are the true spiritual descendants of the Pharisees.

Selective Listening

Of course, another way to refuse to deal with those who raise concerns about [false] teachings is simply to ignore them. In an interview with Charisma magazine, when asked about those who have concerns about his false prophecies, doctrines, and involvement with the Knights of Malta, Rick Joyner replied, “I’m not going to listen to people I think aren’t legitimate leaders in the body of Christ.”… Joyner [and countless others] have thus positioned [themselves] above correction.

Other prophets have taught that a prophet can only be corrected by someone who also has [equal] or greater status. Since most of the teachers in the evangelical and protestant world would never claim to be prophets or apostles, this essentially means that modern prophets are completely uncorrectable by the vast majority of the church!

Demonize the Opposition

Another common strategy employed by the modern prophets to deflect scrutiny away from their unbiblical teaching is to begin to discuss some kind of demonic influence in the person raising the concern… This usually comes in the form of the “Jezebel spirit,” the “religious spirit,” and “the accuser of the brethren.” All of these entities are defined differently by the various prophets, but it is certain that they are very bad. The religious spirit is generally applied to anyone who attempts to ask questions like, “Why hasn’t the church ever believed this before?” or “Where is the doctrinal basis for these new practices?” The person is immediately painted as someone who is stuck in the “old wineskins” and is not responding to the new things that God is doing.

A religious spirit will usually give a counterfeit gift of discernment of spirits. This counterfeit gift thrives on seeing what is wrong with others rather than seeing what God is doing so that we can help them along… Though the truth may be accurate, it is ministered in a spirit that kills. (Overcoming the Religious Spirit, MorningStar Publications, 1996, Fourth Printing 2002, pp. 21-22)

…But far and away, the most common demon that one can anticipate being accused of [operating under] is the Jezebel spirit. The Jezebel spirit is generally… applied to those who will not respond to the authority of these new apostles and prophets. As one prophetic disciple expressed to me, Jezebel sought to control the king, and she attacked the prophets of God. Joyner states:

Basically, the spirit of the Jezebel is a combination of the religious spirit and the spirit of witchcraft that is the spirit of manipulation and control… This spirit attacks the prophetic ministry because that has always been the primary way in which the Lord gives timely, strategic direction to His people. (A Prophetic Vision for the 21st Century, Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1999, p. 148)

…The effect of this argument is generally exactly what the prophet desired [to instill]: a fear among God’s people to examine the “revelations” of the prophet [as] the light of God’s revealed Word, and silence when the new teachings fail to pass the test.

“Don’t Put God in a Box!”

So you think that manifestations like spiritual drunkenness, jerking, roaring, barking, and crawling around like an animal don’t seem consistent with God’s revelation of Himself and His instructions to the church given in Scripture? You are concerned that Ekstasis worship seems more like the trance states induced in pagan worship practices? Well, this is the answer for you: You’re trying to put God in a box. You are trying to dictate and limit what God can and can’t do.

The power of this argument stems from the fact that the Scriptures portray God as an awesome Being who does amazing and unexpected things, who is not formulaic in His ways. The net result of the argument, though, is an “anything goes” approach to divine activity. As long as the worshipper himself/herself feels good about what is happening, the source is assumed to be God–and no one can state differently.

But the question is not one of trying to box God in but rather one of taking God at His word. If God has said that He is not the author of confusion in the worship service but of peace (1 Corinthians 14) can we believe that or not? If it is true, then doesn’t that give us guidelines for determining that some manifestations are contrary to God’s nature as He has revealed it Himself? Are the Scriptures truly sufficient as they claim? If this is so, then won’t they give us the parameters for the activities of the Holy Spirit? Shouldn’t we apply these parameters in evaluating the modern manifestations? Taking God at His word is the essence of faith. It [doesn't mean we are] limiting God [if we] seek to live and worship according to the boundaries He has established. God has given these boundaries and warnings for the protection of His people… so that we can determine what is and what is not from Him.

“God Offends the Mind to Reveal the Heart”

[These leaders] imply that if you are not willing to shelve your brain and follow along, you have a heart problem. But the Bible… does not treat the intellect as a problem. The heart and mind are frequently used interchangeably in Scripture. [The statement "God offends the mind to reveal the heart"] is a doctrine written by modern apostles and repeated so frequently that it has gained acceptance among the biblically illiterate…. In reality, this is just the modern apostle/prophet’s way of saying, “You think too much. Just go with the flow and see where it leads.” Once again, the underlying message is crystal clear. Don’t think. Don’t question. This approach to Christianity is both unbiblical and unwise.

“God’s Gonna Judge You!”

If the attempt at silencing their critics through guilt doesn’t work, the modern prophets will move to intimidation: “God will judge you!” Look at the words of apostolic pastor Dutch Sheets in a prophecy about the “Shift in 2006″:

Those who refuse to move in current truth will begin to openly criticize leaders in the Body of Christ that are moving in the flow of the apostolic and the prophetic… When they do, God is going to begin to judge them.

This warning by Dutch Sheets would actually make sense if these modern apostles and prophets were truly in the mold of the Old Testament prophets or New Testament apostles. These men spoke with God’s authority. To reject their word was to reject the Word of God. But since today’s apostles and prophets are frequently wrong and will not subject themselves to the biblical tests, they are engaged in something far different.

By attacking anyone who expresses concern based on doctrinal issues, the modern prophets have created an environment of passive acceptance. They place themselves above rebuke and correction, even from the Word of God. [Tragically], this may truly lead to a case of the blind leading the blind.

Tod Bentley and his angel of “Finance.”

Video date April 12, 2010 (so the glory event has probably happened.)

Looking like some cheap knock off of Anton Levey, Tod Bentley once again is spreading his lies. This time is about his encounter with the “angel of finance.” Bob Jones, Rick Joyner — all the great ones have encouraged him with this latest lie.

“Bob Jones said he too had an encounter with an angel called the international banker.” Of course, Bob Jones did. This man, I believe is so demonically possessed at this point he can’t know a devil from an angel. Remember, he had a three foot angel (demon) named “Charlie” appear before him. I do not mean to be unkind but someone needs to take him to go get his head examined. It IS possible he has a brain tumor at this stage in his life or something. 

TB, Jones and Joyner all having visions or whatever during the same time, was God’s way of telling them, He was going to release finances. “God wants to release that angelic realm that controls finances. Not just for buisness, not just for the kingdom, but the nations.”

After reading from Isaiaih 45, TB exploits God’s word by saying : “It’s time for God to give us the treasures of darkness. That’s always been the promise.”

I’m afraid this treasure of darkness TB speaks of, is exactly that — a treasure of darkness such as the man he is.

Then blah, blah, blah all his worn-out talk once again about glory. Glory equaling wealth, riches, etc. I suppose if you are able to deceive as many as you can to give to your ministry, yep, you will see that ol’ glory, Tod.

They want people to come to the glory conference that represents their debts. Really? How about taking you bills and letting TB pay for them? That’s an idea.  

“Supernatural transfer of wealth.”

There is gonna be a transfer of wealth alright. But not the kind TB and his minions talk of. It is an enemy within the United States. It is called communism and TB and his people want to make sure they get your piece of the pie before government gets it. 

TB manipulates by trying to speak to women to fund his ministry.

Just as God truly has His remnant all ove the Untied States, you can bet Satan is setting up his children alsos. Tob Bentley is one of many.    

Please forgive me, my friends. I just can not transcribe all the lies and embellishments of this man. But know this: TB is still at large and still fleecing any sheep that either do not take time to test things or are looking to God as a genie. Or trusting man to hear from God for them.

When the doo-doo hits the fan in this nation, these fakes will not have a leg to stand on. Do not be so foolish to give your money to them. They will NOT be the ones to save you. Do NOT put your trust in them or their teachings for their teachings come from hell and lying demons.

Greater Glory Gathering and a New Angel!

In light of Patricia King’s new “minty green angel”  (just in time for Saint Patrick’s Day, I might add) we now have the International Banker angel to contend with. Following article gotten here: http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2010/03/13/greater-glory-gathering-and-the-angel-named-international-banker/

Mt 16:4  A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

I want you to get this picture in your mind - you’re sitting in church and the pastor opens the Bible and begins expository teaching.  He takes you verse by verse through the Scriptures and he actually teaches you the Word of God.  It’s a nice picture, isn’t it?  Do you want to see the exact opposite of that?  Keep reading.

Bob Jones had an angelic encounter recently and said that the angel introduced himself as the “angel that was the International Banker.”  I’m thinking this is the angel of finance with a new title, because Rick Joyner relates that instead of introducing himself as the angel of finance, he introduced himself as “International Banker.”  Wow.  Ya know, I’m highly irritated that the Bible failed to mention this specific angel to me.  If it hadn’t been for Bob Jones, Todd Bentley, and Rick Joyner, I would have never even known this particular angel existed.  The nerve!

In this video, Rick Joyner and Todd Bentley announce the Greater Glory Gathering, which is going to be held from April 18 to 21, 2010, at Heritage International Ministries.  They stress that this is not a school and it’s not a conference, it’s a gathering!  Featured speakers will be  Bob Jones, Rick Joyner, Todd Bentley, Ryan Wyatt, and Jason Hooper, and with a lineup like that, it promises to be a real mystical experience!

Conferences, revival schools, and gatherings are nothing new with Joyner; they have them all the time.  The marketing spin they put on each one of them grows more colorful and lively than the one before it.  What’s interesting about this particular “gathering” is that Todd Bentley is saying it was reinforced, or rather inspired, by encounters he has been having recently.  In one encounter, he was digging through some rubble when he found a manual.  It was a manual about God’s greater glory.  What a convenient vision to have right before a “greater glory” gathering, wouldn’t you say?  He then compares it to when Josiah and Hilkiah dug the book of Moses out of the rubble of Solomon’s temple, which resulted in the greatest revival in the history of Israel. 

(Insert the power of suggestion here…we will have revival…we will have revival…we will have revival.  God told me (Bentley) in a vision that there would be revival, even gave me the how-to manual, so there’s gonna be a revival, folks!  You just need to believe it and jump on board!  It’s up to you!  Come on!  We can’t have revival without you!)

In another encounter, Bentley was visited by an angel with gemstones in its wings.  This angel stood like a man, was six-feet-two-inches tall, and had wings like a cherubim.  The angel said to Bentley, “I’ve come to speak about finance, and the release of finance and the wealth of nations.”  What an important message!  I mean, there’s nothing else the church needs to hear about more than money!  It’s all according to who you know, and this would be a great contact to have if you’re interested in fronting a global revival!  Revival requires money, and the gem-stone angel is here to make sure the blessing of finance is released… that is, to deceive you into releasing your money and sending it to Bentley.

So, immediately after this angelic visitation, he gets on the telephone with Bob Jones, and Jones said, “Didn’t I tell you the word I had about the international banker that visited me!?”   Rick Joyner interjects, “Yeah, that was a name for an angel.”  Bentley then relates that that was how the angel had introduced himself to Bob Jones – “The angel that was the international banker.”  Joyner then informs us that this angel is over the treasuries of Heaven for the earth, therefore, there will be financial breakthroughs in the form of debt cancellation. 

Here’s where it gets maddening.  Joyner goes into a strange interpretation of Scripture where he says that when God showed Moses his back side, He was showing him His stripes on His back, and that’s where people’s financial debt was cancelled.  Those stripes.  Right there.  On His back.  Go ahead and max out your credit card and heap things up to satisfy your fleshly desires – God the Father has those stripes upon His back to cancel your financial debt.  Now, Joyner does say that those stripes were taken to cancel all debt, but money debt is definitely one of them.  This unscriptural interpretation smacks of Oneness Pentecostalism, it isn’t sound Biblical doctrine.  God the Father doesn’t have stripes upon His back, those were taken by Jesus Christ, the Son of God who became flesh - not the Father! 

Now, to be fair, Joyner did acknowledge that some people are in the financial shape they’re in because of foolish decisions.  I concur!  But then he and Bentley go on to say that the manifest presence is about more than signs or debt cancellation, it’s about the “glory.”  The glory that’s coming.  Bentley says that in the past they saw gold, angel feathers, and all kinds of signs such as gemstones and diamonds, which was evidence to them that God’s glory was being poured out.   But in this Greater Glory Gathering, it’s God’s manifest presence they’re after – the person of God.  Problem is, Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through Him.  He is the door, and should they try to come up any other way, they are the same as a thief and a robber.  (John 14:6)

So many people are looking for signs, but Jesus said no sign would be given except the sign of Jonah.  As Jonah was three days and nights in the belly of the whale, so was Jesus three days and nights in the heart of the earth.  (Matthew 12:40)  They fail to remember that Jesus said that only a wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign.  But, those who hear the voice of God’s Son, who follow His words, who walk in His ways, who believe in Him…those are the ones who, like Abraham, believe God, and will have it imputed to them as righteousness.  (Romans 4:3)  What other sign more marvelous can God the Father give us than the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, His Son?  There is none.  Not gemstones, not angel feathers, not diamonds.  It isn’t those things which show God’s glory – God was glorified through His Son!

Those who neglect the Son of God and search beyond Jesus for further proof of God’s glory have completely missed the whole point.  Paul, who truly visited the third Heaven didn’t tell tall tales of glory clouds and gem-encrusted angels, he said this:  “And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.  For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.”  (1 Corinthians 2:1-2)

Outside of that, there is nothing.  May we ever keep our eyes and hearts upon Jesus!

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The following comments taken from slaughteringthesheep blog are great  examples of Bereans testing all things:

“Joyner then informs us that this angel is over the treasuries of Heaven for the earth. There will be financial breakthroughs in the form of debt cancellation.”

This debt retirement couldn’t come at a better time for MorningStar in view of its debt. — Ian –

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Hey, is this “angel that was the International Banker” mint green ? Methinks he’s visited ol’ Patty King. — Denise –

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The angel will be showing up at the gathering and his word will be in line with the word Todd gave when he did his $1,000 sham in Lakeland. I am willing to bet that the promise of wealth transfer will be pushed over and over during this gathering. You cancel Morningstar’s debt and this angel will see all your debt will be cancelled as well.

The more you give the greater your blessing will be. Your influnce with God will also be greater. Man, the suckers still believe this crap.

They deserve to be fleeced to their last penny. — Rick –

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If the angel is in charge of the ” treasuries of heaven ” why doesn’t he finagle some way of bringing some of it with him ? And why doesn’t this financial angel teach seed faith to Rick Joyner so Rick doesn’t have to keep taking up collections from the poor people in his audience? That way, Rick can finally be a blessing and give away some money instead of sucking people dry. But then again, maybe these folk are getting what they deserve, just by showing up and listening to these clowns.

By the way, can anyone explain to me why we need treasuries in heaven, the streets are paved with gold for crying out loud. I always thought the real treasure in heaven would be Jesus Christ – oh yeah, they forgot about that !

–Robert –

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You know they’ve been priming that pump for years by telling people that blessings come when they open their wallets and give generously. So, now with the appearance of this “angel” (demon), people will think that the outpouring will be commensurate with their giving and so these guys will just take the money (as they always do) and pad their accounts and then tell people how much blessing is coming from their giving and they should keep giving so that the annointing will increase.

I would just remind folks of Simon in Acts 8 who thought that he could buy the ability to bless people with the power of the Holy Spirit and he was directly rebuked and told that he was in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity. These guys are akin with the likes of Simon the Sorcerer. Perhaps they can get together with Christina Glenn and scream a little louder so that the banking angel will release more funds.

In His service,

Mike

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After nearly 30 years in the financial services industry, I can tell you from experience that any “angel” name “international banker” is 100% a fallen angel/demon. 2sd2lol
These knuckleheads are bringing the New Age Aquarius eastern mysticism into what passes for the “church.” Alice Bailey and Barbara Marx Hubbard taught extensively about these Luciferian lies (as if they were truth), and we who follow Jesus as Lord, (and no ascended master jesus counterfeit) are the cancer they wish to cut out to save the body of new humans who will be “cleansed” and made into demon motels for the age to come. They all want their way for 2012 and we are holding things up, so we must be removed.
Tribulation, both small and great, are NOT the wrath of God, but the wrath of satan. Jesus said we would see tribulation even as such that has never been seen before or will ever happen again.
God has always delivered His own THROUGH floods, fire, lions etc…some to live another day, some to glory. How many people got on the ark after God closed the door? While the flood was a judgement from God, the Great Tribulation is from Satan….ah but the wrath of God is not for those of us who are in Christ Jesus, be of good cheer saints, He has overcome the world, and so will we who are in Christ Jesus,…martyr means witness, and there are many under the alter spoken of in Revelation.
When we lose our religion about Him based upon the traditions of men, and embrace Him as Lord, we begin to see clearly, and the seeming mysteries of Revelation become clear…but you must allow Him to tear everything not built by Him down, reducing you to Christ Jesus, so He can build on Himself as the Foundation. You can’t hang His Truth on a superstructure of traditions of men…He won’t allow it. Many are called, few are chosen, narrow is the path that leads to Eternal Life, and few there be that find it. The rest are ever learning but never able to come to the knowlege of Truth.

– Mickie – 

Hey, if the great Jerry Fall well can’t pull it off, how will a hack like Joyner?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3Gg8xxLKCI

This kind of mularky isn’t just for the charismatic wolf, it is there in the baptist wolf as well. Watch this and be amazed/sickened. 

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So Bob, you had a visit with an angel..

Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

(Bob’s also part of the IHOP camp that promotes ‘the god within you’, that promotes Contemplative prayer, that promotes Catholic mystics, and other highly unusual and unbiblical teachings…) Bob, you need to understand that the gospel you are now promoting is one that is OTHER than the one that was preached to the church…

Bob, why was it you left IHOP? What have you done to correct the thing that made you leave? Where is the repentance/change in your behavior, Bob?

Because we can all laugh about the Banker angel and the stupidity of your messages, but in all seriousness, you have a serious problem, Bob.

…and what was that part about teachers having a stricter judgement, Bob?

 – Annunk –

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I can see it now: “angel International Banker is called before the Senate finance Comittee to explain WHY blessings have not been made as available to poor people as they are to the “RICH”.
I know, this isn’t a political blog, and Chrystal, I hope that you don’t mind my one little joke.
Angels don’t interest me as much as the One who sends them to accomplish His will.
Amongst us former Charismatics, who else rmembers “The Happy Hunters” the husband and wife team which went gaga over angels? They couldn’t butter their toast in the morning without some angel handing them the marmalade. (kidding. barely) — Doug –

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Hmm…international banker. Not so inspiring a title considering the fallout and crash of our economy. I think I prefer “minister of finance” it has much more class. For those truly desperate for a breakthrough in debt, our government offers a legal and relatively quick solution – bankruptcy. It may not be the wild ride of “breakthrough” that Toddie and Bobo promise, but it’s a sure thing. You won’t need to chant or stand on your head or listen to sheeka boom ba, just see an attorney. And 6 months later – BAM – you’re outta debt! More miraculous than gold dust! — Mkayla –

Todd Bentley could be assassinated? Yes, really. And it’s your fault

Article found here:

http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2010/01/09/todd-bentley-could-be-assassinated-yes-really/

I have been following Todd Bentley for about nine years now and what follows is quite brazen even to me. Evangelist Bentley, thanks to his print and internet critics, could be assassinated. Or so says Jesus, if we are to believe “prophet” Bob Jones.

Before you look for Sirhan B. Sirhan in the baptistry of the Morningstar facility where Todd Bentley is lauching his new, and probably unimproved, revival, I have to add that everyone is being quite serious about all this. The stench of this word, in my opinion, reeks. All this is  a bad, bad omen for those who were hoping and praying that Bentley was learning and repenting from his past mistakes.

Bob Jones, who is infamous for his past teaching and actions (please scroll down to the entry under his name here), was a guest at the Morningstar Church services on January 3. Todd Bentley and his new wife Jessa were called up to the stage by Jones, as he said that Jesus had a prophetic word for them. (Todd Bentley liked the word so much, that he posted it on his website a day or so ago. You can watch it if you like, but in case it disappears later, I’ll be quoting it extensively.)

I am grateful to the blogger at Slaughter of the Sheep who was able to transcribe the relevant parts of the word last night before I could get to it myself. Her own post has some great insights as well.

The transcript begins at about 2:30 of the video as put on Bentley’s website and continues until about the ten minute mark. I’ve double checked it, and this is correct.

[UPDATE: The relevant part is now up at YouTube as well.

Bob Jones is speaking unless otherwise noted:

(Supposedly Jesus speaking here.) “I want you to break curses.  I want you to break a curse off of Todd Bentley.  Because well-meaning christians have put a curse on him, and that’s leaving an opening for him to be assassinated.  Also, that curse is on everyone that protects him.  In other words, MorningStar has been bombarded by this same disgruntled-Christian curse, not knowing what they’re doing.  Take the curse off it.  This building’s been…a curse put on it…take that off.”  (This next part is Bob talking for himself.)  “A curse has the ability to make you sick, discouraged, divided.  All these things have got to end now.  So, one of the first things I want to do is if Todd and his wife come up here – by the way, this isn’t an option to me, this is a command.  It’s a lot different than an option.  Uh, the Lord would not have me take this off of Todd and his wife unless there was a major purpose there for them.  One thing about the curse, I’ll just warn you about this, any curse you put on somebody will return to you.  So, if you’re going to err, err on the side of grace.”  (Rick Joyner speaks now.) “He’s speaking of Christians cursing others too with their words.  There’s awesome power in these words.”  (Bob Jones speaking now.)  “Yes, there’s awesome power in his words.  The first one I’m going to break is …(laying hands on Todd and Jessa)… ”I break the curse, the spoken word over my brother and my sister.  (Todd and Jessa begin shaking or manifesting.) And now let this … good, here it’s coming… and now let this curse be broken, and let them begin to get the vision for their future, and the purpose of the future, in Jesus’s name.  Good?  There comes the wind, good, good, good, good, good, good (they’re still shaking) … there, feel the wind?  It’s blowing it away.  Good.  Good.   Now, let the spirit man, the conscience be cleaned…let it be cleaned… so that the relationship with the Holy Spirit again can begin in the right way, in Jesus name, amen.  And, let now a new gift come into Todd, let it be discernment of spirit on a level he’s never known before.  In Jesus name, amen.  (At this point Todd begins repeatedly saying, “shoo, shoo, shoo” and bobbing and shaking his head.)  Now, let this supernatural faith that dwells within, let it come again.  Let that supernatural faith come again, that creative supernatural faith, in Jesus name.  Good.  It’s done.  The sword is out.  I now void this disparity against Todd.  Rick, can you see how his face flashes on him now.  See, that glory is back on him again.  And, uh…good.  Just take that deep breath.  One more.  There he goes.  (Bentley staggers and chuckles.)

(Joyner interjects) "You see on that video, there should be smoke coming out of his [Bentley's] head. We’re gonna see more of that.”

(Todd and Jessa leave the stage and Bob Jones begins to speak again.)  “A spirit of infirmity is released through curses.  Most of the creative miracles I’ve done was breaking curses.  And I feel several infirmities here that are actually curses.  I feel lung infections, bronchial infections, sinus infections, uh, on these curses, you gotta learn to break them off of yourself, you don’t go along with this stuff.  Stomach, discouragement, disillusion, confusion, rejection, suicidal thoughts, all of that is coming because you’re being bombarded by the enemy.  And, I’m sorry to say but alot of this enemy is, uh, well-meaning Christians that think they’re doing God a favor by what they’re doing.  So, some of you that’s, uh, especially, that’s uh, had a pressure in your upper chest, like a heaviness, and a defeat on you, uh, lay your hands on yourself, because the main purpose of all of this is to get revelation for yourself again.  And, Bonnie has got a word that is really accurate here, but first what I want to do is break the curse off of Rick, for some of these major words that’s been spoken has been against you.  So, I break that off of you, and off of your mind, to where that anointing comes on your mind again, on the back of your head to where that it raises up again and we begin to hear those anointed words coming that’s got power in them, for it’s no longer time for the word, it’s time for power.  So, I break the curse off of this body in Jesus name.  I cast this curse down over each and every one of you.  I break the crown of the enemy he’s put on you… that’s… that pressure.  I release you in Jesus name.  And now let the curse be gone from this place.  Let it be gone, for it’s been holding back the breakthrough of the youth… let it now break through and let the youth now break through.  Uh, uh, it’s been, uh, uh, stopping your vision, your faith vision, the enemy’s been closing your eyes, now let your eyes open and let faith come again in you and let you get a faith for God’s purpose in your life from this time forth, in Jesus name….

——————————————————————————————

Lots to comment on, so I will just get started.

I wonder if this is a genuine word, or part of a PR spin, on behalf of Bentley. Jones comes and gives his impriatur and then, just last night (January 8), Mike Bickle of the other new revival at IHOP in Kansas City comes and gives his blessing. Sounds like Rick Joyner was busy getting Bentley’s ducks in order for him before Bentley’s new revival started.

The credulous will hear Bob Jones and think that Todd Bentley is about to launch a laudable, totally fine revival. After all, isn’t Satan hoping to get permission to kill Bentley? That means that Todd has gotta be on the right track, right? After all, this is “Jesus talking”.

I have some doubts. After all, the Bereans were commended (in Acts) for checking out what Paul taught in the Scriptures. And Jesus in the Bible also says to discern the value of things by their “fruit”. I doubt that Jesus would want Christians to dispense with a Bible-based critique done in an attempted spirit of being fair and responsible. This word from Jones discourages these valid things.

Does criticism really have the power to lead to Christian leaders being assassinated? If this were the case, this would be sadly rife in the body of Christ, wouldn’t it? Not a newsworthy exception.

If words are so magical, why did the apostle Paul criticize heretics by name? What about Christ’s criticism of the religious leaders of his day–those “white washed tombs”. Does this mean that Christ put a curse on the Pharisees, which would have lead to their death? (Jones implies that it is a sin for Christians to be rhetorically mean to Bentley, so does this logically mean that Christ sinned too? This would clearly be ridiculous, so there must be a way for Christians to justly critique.)

Does Satan really want to kill Todd Bentley? In a general way, I would concede that Satan might want Bentley dead–but if we look at things in a theologically orthodox way, the devil might be pleased by some of the things that have happened around Bentley and hope that they happen again. (Christ’s remark that it doesn’t make sense for the devil to work against his own purposes comes to mind.)

Personally, I think that God still wants to be gracious to Todd Bentley and allow him to mend his ways. (This does not imply that he should minister.) This is not impossible–just ask Jim Bakker. It should go without saying that I wish him no harm, but the fact that I need to point this out in the face of Jones’ word implies that something is amiss.

The Jones word is designed to intimidate people from looking at what is happening at Fort Mill now. Even Bentley’s friends admit that not all that happened at Lakeland was great. We need to check the fruit of the Joyner-Bentley restoration process. Did Todd learn from Lakeland? Did the restoration process work? Better not publicly wonder that, or else it’s Lee Harvey Oswald time.

If God forbid, Bentley does get hurt, I wonder if Jones wants to plant the idea that Bentley’s critics have created “a climate of hate” that led to this happening. This sort of thing can and does lead to censorship. Or God forbid, an idea that the sniper was inspired to do his deed by a Bentley critic.

(The skittish might decide that in order to make sure that Bentley remains safe, they in turn should remain silent. And that would be a shame.)

This word is handy for Bentley in another way too. It could be a reason to ban the secular and Christian media from covering Bentley and this new revival. Bentley “needs iron-clad” security and can’t allow anyone who could be even critical near him because we have a prophetic word that there is an assassin out there. Reporters won’t be allowed because criticism leads  to a “curse” leading to you know what. Who knows, a gun could be hidden in that TV camera too.

Bentley has sort of prepared the way for this by complaining in his restoration videos that he spent a lot of time “dealing with the media.” at Lakeland. That really wasn’t the case, of course, but it will be a handy reason to not allow reporters nearby.

If you look at the Bible, you’ll recall that Jesus and Paul weren’t afraid of anyone. They faced real threats, not “prophetic ones”, but they faced their critics squarely.

Carrying on to the word itself…

It’s interesting the Jones says that Morningstar itself is under a curse for sheltering Todd. This is not good, as it discourages the Morningstar officials from looking at what they are doing and seeing whether they are making any mistakes. They might then, courtesy of this word, continue to make these mistakes, and wind up hurting the innocent people who are involved with Morningstar.

Jones goes on to say that he has been commanded by Jesus to break the curse over Todd and Jessa Bentley. “The Lord would not have me take this off of Todd and his wife unless there was a major purpose there for them.”

You are intended to think that the Fort Mill revival is part of the “major purpose”. The Fort Mill revival has been pre-approved by God? How handy.

The word also begs the question of what “major purpose” is. You imply that it is evangelism, as this is what Bentley wants to do for a living. Is it? You could infer by Lakeland crashing that perhaps Bentley should try another line of work. What if Bentley is to open a pizza parlor or do something important behind the scenes? There’s not really room for this sort of speculation in this word.

Bob Jones prays for the Bentleys. “Now let the spirit man, the conscience be cleaned….so that the relationship with the Holy Spirit can begin in the right way…”

This is the sort of language that implies that this is something that has not been done and needs to be done. Uh-oh, Bob Jones is off the page. Hasn’t this been happening already, courtesy of Rick Joyner, in that long and extensive restoration process? Wasn’t the entire idea that Bentkey would not return to ministry until he was ready? Well, I think that Bob Jones has mislaid his copy of the script.

Jones prays that Bentley finds his “vision for the future”. Uh, didn’t Todd get his “calling” over 10 years ago with his various visions, as documented in Bentley’s books, that Bentley would be a world famous evangelist? Bob Jones is tossing Bentley under the bus by not going along with Todd’s arguments that he is to return to what he was doing before. Bentley already is supposed to have a vision and prayers led by “god” need to match up with that, or either Bentley or Jones is winging it.

It’s also not helpful for Jones to imply that if you are sick that it is the fault of other Christians, not you taking care of yourself. That is, obviously, wrong. I can imagine people in Jones’ audience attributing their sickness to a “curse” when actually there are physical reasons that should be addressed. I hope that no one really gets sick from listening to Jones.

His prayer for Rick Joyner is interesting too. “….what I want to do is break the curse off of Rick, for some of these major words that’s been spoken has been against you.  So, I break that off of you, and off of your mind, to where that anointing comes on your mind again, on the back of your head to where that it raises up again and we begin to hear those anointed words coming that’s got power in them, for it’s no longer time for the word, it’s time for power….” It’s “no longer time for the word [of God]…should set off alarms.

So Rick Joyner needs to have the “anointing” on his mind again? Well, what was the state of his mind when he was restoring Todd Bentley? What was the state of his mind, for example, when he took an entire video to criticize the media and also the spritual walk and status of Charisma’s Lee Grady after the latter became dismayed with Bentley being restored to ministry too quickly? Was Joyner not wise or godly then? Jones is praying as if Joyner might not have been…and is working without a net again.

The blogger at Slaughter of the Sheep adds some interesting comments of her own. Did you know that Bob Jones has prophetic sneakers? I’ll let her explain.

I have the feeling that whatever happens with Bentley at Fort Mill will rise and fall faster than events at Lakeland. Secular reporters, and even many Christian ones, will say to themselves, “I’ve done this Bentley story before…” So, it is important for many of us who watch and comment on Bentley to do what we are able to, lest he fly under the radar this time. There’s room for everyone.

I think that we’ll need to run a zone defense, if that applies to blogging.

Why they went to Rebuke Tod Bentley

msrebuke2510:

Part 1:

Part 2:

Rick Joyner – No Grace for Grady

I realize this thing between Lee Grady and Rick Joyner happened a while back — unless a new event occured between them — but with Tod Bentley on the rise again, I think it needs to be known that Rick Joyner, is infatuated with TB and still endorses him. Joyner calls everyone else into accountability but NEVER yet has held TB accountable for the lies and heresies he taught. Truly it is a hypocrisy in the most highest and manipulative way.

vinnieacts2030:

Rick Joyner manipulation

godsplumbline gives us the following:

HERESY: Rick Joner’s Church of Altered States

Video that does a good job showing how music, theatrics and timing can bring altered states of consciousness during “worship” services.

Two grown men lay on the floor next to one another as if this something godly. I ask, are you able to see Jesus and his disciples behave in such a way? Dancing to voodoo music, manipulating people to act like dumb sheep? And they credit this bedlam to God? If you are involved in this, please ask yourself why and begin testing things.

ahouseisnotahome:

When Deceitful Men Esteem One Another

When one deceitful man esteems another decietful man, I just have to ask why? I believe it is because they support one another in their deceitful deeds. Rick Joyner is as every bit as false as Tod Bentley. He too, is a manipulator, and Church we need not fear those who speak lies.

RJ lies when he says if you do not agree with restoring Tod Bently (meaning see him come back bigger and greater) than you are not spiritual.

Well, I guess I must not be spiritual because just as I want to see another man inthis nation FAIL at what he stands for, I want to see TB FAIL in his revivals. For he is a liar and a deceiver who practices the occult!

So RJ, you do NOT get to manipulate me with that one.

I wonder how RJ is discerning the times right now?

Todd Bentley and his “DARK ANGELS”

If I have my information correct, TB is planning on making a comeback September 10. Personally, this sickens me when there are things coming upon the earth and we have false OCCULT revivalists rising up again during a time when people need to be seeking God for the next few months.

Some of you may want you think twice before going back to seek “god” in the midst of this diabolical garbage from hell.

I still stand behind my beliefs I did a year ago: The man is a deceiver.

He has been proven a liar more than once.

He DARES to call any of us who questions him in “heresy land!” KNOW THIS Tod Bentley; YOU are the heretic and you led many astray last year with your lying abominble apostate whoredom teachings. You DARE to touch God’s annointed who hold fast to the truth as the “heretics!” But No! You have been tested and your fruit of “truth” stinks to high heaven. YOU helped lead masses of people astray during a time when they should have been seeking God in this nation for this nation. YOU helped bring devils on this earth with your going to city to city “opening gates and portals” unleashing demons upon the earth! It is you who is the apostate, heretic and a wolf. You who practice the occult in the name of a Jesus in an image of Jesus you created, YOU Tod Bentley are false. You come against a holy God of truth when YOU dare to twist His Word for your gain, your ministry, your following, your finances, your fame — whatever it is you cling to other than the truth of God.

This video with the calling down of angels? SHOW me where we are told to do that in the Word of God! Show me, you, who have ran after this man and have put your trust in him as some annointed one.

The music is heavy metal head banging music — straight from hell — to manipulate and whip the people up in a frenzy! And some of you dare to call it “annoninted?” If heaven above has that kind of music I do not want to go there!

I have asked God why not much fellowship the past five years. I have asked Him to give me fellowship with his Church with like-minded people, but it is nowhere to be found because God’s people are not testing things. They follow every wind of doctrine, purchase the latest books by liars and deceivers whose teachings are based in the Occult and the New Age.
They chase everything but the Word of God and they dare to call me and others like me — religious, judging, negative?! 

I will NOT for the sake of a fake peace put my brain on the back burner and say “peace, peace” when there is no peace. I am hidden in the Lord Jesus Christ. He has me in the palm of his Hand, just as He has a lot of you who have come here. We have been called apart from the deception that was and the deceptions to come. Cling to Him. Cling to the Spirit of Truth for He will never lead you astray. Continue testing all things. We are commanded to.

I point you not to myself, nor to angels, nor to any man. I point you to Jesus for it will be only He who will sustain you in the days to come. Why are these false teachers, prophets, apostels, preachers not warning of you of the judgments of God? Why do they speak smooth things to you?

LUKE 12:51 “Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.”

Jesus brings division when He seperates truth from lies. But some still want to cling to a lie instead of testing it and then get angry at those of us who have tested and find things are not as they seem. They just want us to shut up. By the grace of God and while there is breath in this mortal body I will NOT shut up. It has nothing to do with me or my personality or anything else that would point back to me. It is everything to do with the truth of God! For the more I see the evil around me the more I want to cling to that which is good.

Discern the Time

There will be those who come here, read these words and then leave upset because I speak against these things. So be it.

But let me ask you something; what part of the truth is it you do not love? Because when this man comes back, UNLESS HE HAS TRULY REPENTED FOR HIS WITCHCRAFT, he will bring a grander delusion, such as is coming upon the whole earth. Once agian, if you do not test things according to the pure unadultered Word of God, you will be deceived and then you will lead others into your deception.

LUKE 12: 54- 56 “ Then He also said to the multitudes, “Whenever you see a cloud rising out of the west, immediately you say, ‘A shower is coming’; and so it is. And when you see the south wind blow, you say, ‘There will be hot weather’; and there is. Hypocrites! You can discern the face of the sky and of the earth, but how is it you do not discern this time?”

If there is anything in you, anything at all that tells you something is just not right in the world, that storm clouds are gathering, then why is Tod Bentley and others like him not discerning the time with you?

Are you going to trust this man’s annointing or the Holy Spirit in you that is telling you that something is not quite right?

When the Holy Spirit comes He will NEVER draw attention to Himself, but He will point to Jesus. Not to angels, not to man, not to teachings, not to books, not to the latest christian fad. But to Jesus. Some of you better make sure it is the real Jesus because Satan comes as an angel of light. 

Have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth?

Occult in the Church

Someone told me that a friend of theirs does not like coming to this site because I am too “negative.” Well, exposing darkness and lies will not win you any popularity contests and I am not out to win any.

We are commanded to test all things. Yet, when some of us do and report our findings, we are told we are “negative, unteachable, rebellious, religious…blah blah blah.” I’ve heard them all.

It is love for the truth that I do what I do. It is love for the sheep and for the true Bride of Christ that I do what I do. I don’t have to prove it to anyone. My actions alone should be proof enough.

I have learned that there are those within church who will say they want you to use your “gifts,” talents or abilities–and they will gladly let you use them. All but one; and that is discernment.

So, if you have a problem with the things I put on this site; then I ask you, why are you not testing things? Are you not aware of what God says in His Word that He will send delusions in the last days? Yet, some of you have been so indoctrinated that you must trust man, your church, your pastor to the point where you yourself have stopped testing a thing.

So do not blame me for the things you see me putting out here. I speak the truth concerning these things. These things are occultic and for anyone to believe otherwise is a lie and a delusion you are under.
There is no grey area here.

Rick Joyner covering his butt?

I believe Rick Joyner is covering his butt here for future screw ups from Tod Bentley.

He says TB says sitting with a reporter and answering questions has helped him more than anything.

RJ says they are not rushing TB and that he is being used very little.

TB’s whole concept of ministry is changing. What about his teachings? Has that changed any? Is he going to come back with the same lies and heresies?

Oddly enough at the end of the video he begins to talk about the swine flu. Telling us the main reason for Lakeland is that we have to know Jesus so we can have authority over the flu when it hits greatly. My thought on that is well, we all can just go get a touch from the apostates and be healed now can’t we? I wonder if any of them will even be found during such a time.

The maker of the video pretty much hits it on the head: Rick Joyner seems to have heard peoples comments about how much time seems to spent making videos and how little time seems to spent on “restoration”. Now he tells us Todd is actually writing a book!! NO counseling or real help involved. They gotta keep Todd out there in the public eye. They must convince us that Lakeland was “a move of God” rather then the 3 ring circus it was. When real revival comes folks people REPENT!! They don’t marry their mistresses!!

Tod Bently: It’s all genuine (Genuine Bull)

In a video that can be seen here  

http://www.morningstarministries.org/Group/Group.aspx?ID=1000040651

Rick joyner and Tod Bently discuss his restoration. PJ Miller here http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/its-all-about-me/#comments really hits the nail on the head in exposing the real  Tod Bently:

-has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements, high ego)

-is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success and power.

-requires excessive admiration

- has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favourable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

- is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.

———————————————————————————————-Another blogger pointed out the lying smile right at 3:01. It is so obvious to anyone who knows anything about body or facial language.

Years ago, while watching the events unfold on T.V. about Susan Smith–a woman who murdered her children and was lying about it– I saw a smile run across ther face in a blink of an eye. I told the person who I was watching it with, “That woman is guilty. She killed her own children.” My friend thought I was awful for accusing a woman who was in tears on national T.V. begging for her children to be returned to her. I didn’t back down. I know what I saw. I saw blatant evil and deception run across her face. (Just like I have seen in some T.V. evangelists) When the truth finally came out, she was found guilty of drowning her two little boys.

The same thing is true for today concerning Tod Bentley. I, along with others, were able to see him as a fake and a deceiver the moment we laid eyes on him.

At 3:01 not only can we see a smile, but a demon as well.  

The simple fact that he is trying his best to convince the viewer the whole revival was “genuine”, tells me even more what a lying abominible circus the whole thing was.  The only thing genuine was the genuine bull that came out of this whole fiasco.  

Tod Bently is all about Tod Bentley.  Was from the beginning and will be until men like Rick Joyner finally get sick enough of him and expose him for the fake they have to know he is!

MorningStar Ministries: Tod Bentleys’ “Restoration”

Todd Bentley Begins Restoration Process
By Rick Joyner

Todd Bentley was used to spark the Lakeland Outpouring, which raised the faith level of much of the body of Christ. Testimonies of healings and miracles from it are now virtually all over the world.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[We have yet to see the proof of this. TB had the chance to show records he said he had. But he chose not to.]  

When Todd’s marriage failed, he abruptly stopped all ministry and virtually disappeared for almost nine months. In the meantime, his divorce was finalized and he has recently remarried.

Redeemed hippie>>>[Nine months? How much do you want to bet that the great Tod Bentley will use the "nine months" as some kind of teaching aid or example in the days to come? Perhaps saying he gave birth to something brand new during those nine months? During those nine months he could have been seeking the Lord on behalf of his marriage and family life. He chose not to.]

Todd has taken full responsibility for the failure of his marriage.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[If he has, then how has he repented?]

He and Jessa also admit that their relationship was premature and should not have happened the way it did. Both are adamant that it was not the cause for the failure of his first marriage, nor did they begin their relationship until Todd was convinced that his marriage was over.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[Premature? What, they should have waited longer? They HAD to come out with it. God was bringing this false revivalist and those involved to the light. God began to expose them and lifting the skirts of their many whoredoms.]

They have both expressed that it was wrong and premature. They do not want to try and cover this up even though they know many will never accept them for it. Even so, they are married now and are resolved to make the most of their marriage, their lives, and to continue to serve the Lord in the best way that they can.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[Serving the Lord in seeing how many more people they can deceive the next go round.]

My position all along has been that I will do my best to comply with Galatians 6:1, “If a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted” (NKJV). To obey this Word, I have always felt that it did not matter what one had done, and that it was my responsibility to help them find the grace of God to return to the place from which they had fallen.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[These things are true. But when one is a blatant liar such as Tod Bentley and those who backed him up, practicing the occult, teaching the occult as the gospel, there is no room for compromise here. Rick joyner says, "... it was my responsibility to help them find the grace of God to return to the place from which they had fallen." Let us hope not!  Let us hope he is NOT going to help restore TB BACK to the place he fell. Rather, expose the man for his lying occult abominations! God forbid, that you would take him back to it!]

I confess that with Todd, I am not just doing this as a duty. From the time I first met him nearly ten years ago, I knew that he had an extraordinary purpose and a gift of faith for the miraculous that would be desperately needed in these times.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[Rick Joyner had absolutely no discernment if this is what he thought of Tod Bentley. The church does not need Tod Bentley and his abominations. The church needs the truth and accountability.]

I consider helping any of God’s children an honor, and helping Todd is a privilege.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[Then speak the truth to him, Rick Joyner. But you too, have gone astray. You follow apostates, you become one.]

I also confess to some selfish ambition in wanting to do this. I had a dream two decades ago in which one of my children had fallen into a sewage ditch and could not get up. My child was being scorned and no one would help him. A man came along who helped my child get up and then cleaned up. In that dream, I felt as if I would give everything that I owned to this man who helped my child. Then I heard the voice of the Lord say, “Jim Bakker is My child. Will you help him?” Since that time, I have been devoted to helping any of God’s children that I could who have committed any trespass, because I knew there were few other things that would bring the Father’s favor. I consider this willingness to at least try to help others this way a major reason for the extraordinary favor that our ministry, my family, and I have received. I love Todd and am glad to help him, but I also know by doing this, I will be doing something that means a great deal to our Father.

Redeemed hippie>>>[Then will you speak the truth to him? Will you tell him the things he practiced and taught were abomnible heresies?]

When we release someone to minister in the body of Christ, we are releasing him or her to minister to God’s own children, and I personally do not do that with anyone who I would not allow to minister to my own family. For all that was done through Todd, and especially at Lakeland, which touched and helped countless thousands, many were also left confused and hurt by the way it ended.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[That word release. These people have no unction, power or authority to release anyone. All they have released were abomnible heretical teachings through this revival. No one came forth and said it was wrong. No one came forth and challenged it. Now, we are just suppose to trust them in doing what is right? I don't think so. As far as the revival touching thousands, that still is yet to be seen. There is no proof of any great healings. But there is great proof of occult happenings and lies. If anything, all it did was make people hungry for experiences, desiring their emotions to be touched, fed by power hungry people who preyed on the weakness, hopelessness  and ignorance of their followers.]

I think Todd is even more sensitive to this than I am. Although in some ways he greatly misses being in ministry and praying for people, he wants to be sure that when he comes back that his life and his ministry are on the most solid ground possible so that he does not cause these kinds of problems again.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[What problems? The kind where you fake being a family man, and then end of having an affair and divorcing your sick wife for a younger chick? I dare say, it wouldn't happen again. TB already has what he wants. He has the whole nine yards; the minstry, the backing of others, the money, the new woman. What more could his flesh want?]       

Jack Deere and Bill Johnson have agreed to be a part of Todd’s restoration process. I asked them to be a part because I know they will probably see things I don’t,

Redeemed hippie>>>[I don't know anything about Jack Deere or Bill Johnson. But why would I believe that anyone who Rick Joyner gives any credibility to, has somehow all of a sudden being used to bring the full truth to what TB is all about?  Where were they a year ago when all this apostacy began? Why didn't they speak out then, if they are so intuned to restoring anyone? Joyner says, "I asked them to be a part because I know they will probably see things I don’t." Let us hope so!]

…but also because both Todd and I trust them and know they would not sign off on something they did not really believe in. However, both of them are going to be involved in this at a distance, and therefore, I will be the main person responsible.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[They are going to be involved at a distance? Joyner is the main person responsible? Such self-exaltation of self-importance here. There is nothing being said about the Lord holding anyone accountable. It is already obvious these people could not monitor a thing, let alone Tod Bentley. People are to be held accountable to a holy God. Not to those within the same heretical movement.] 

Being a believer in body ministry, I expect our whole leadership team, and to some degree, our whole local church, to be involved in helping Todd and Jessa. Our staff and all from the church that I have discussed this with are very happy about them being here and want to help them in any way that they can.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[What about Shonna and the children? Where are they in all of this? Is anyone reaching out to them or is it just about TB and his new chick? Tod Bentley is a habitual liar, a charlaton and an apostate. And somehow he manages to get all the attention, praise and adoration while his wife and children are paying some kind of price for his behavior. Amazing that the church would put more importance on a heretic than they would his family.]

In future Bulletins, we will go into more detail about what we’re doing and why, as well as what we think was a cause of some of the failures Todd experienced. We will only do this for the sake of helping others avoid the same traps.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[The only whay this whole mess could help anyone is if they came out and said the truth; Tod Bentley was a false teacher and a fake.]

We know that trust has to be earned and that Todd will have to earn the trust of the body of Christ for future ministry, which will not be easy, nor should it be. Todd, more than most, does not want to jump back into ministry prematurely, even as much as he misses it in some ways.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[The fastest and greatest way he could earn that trust is to come right out and tell how he has been a fake and a mocker from the very beginning. Anything short of that is not true repentence.]

I for one have been very encouraged by the expressions of grace and genuine concern so many have expressed toward Todd in this situation. It gives me great hope. As we have been constantly reminded, the Lord had great patience with sinners, but He had none for the self-righteous.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[Joyners' way of saying if you disagree with them in any way and don't jump on board with their program, then you are self-righteous. Never mind the actions of TB. You MUST submit to them by trusting they are doing everything right. I can not and will not. Only a few came out and challenged TB and those who backed him. Those of us who did were called religious cows-- that they wanted to kill,-- rebellious, unteachable, Jezabelles, etc.] 

We’re all here because He had mercy on us, and we know we still need it. However, we also know that true repentance and restoration can only come if we refuse to compromise the clear biblical standards for morality and integrity.  

Redeemed Hippie>>>[Rick and those who follow him know nothing about no compromise. Compromise was written all over TB and his ministry from the very start. They accepted anything and everything as the truth, all in the name of wanting revival.]   

Todd wanted to personally say the following:

It has been a long while since I have spoken publicly and openly. I am sorry for the hurt and confusion that my decisions have caused the body of Christ. It has been a true season of brokenness, hiddenness, and a long process of grieving.

Redeemd Hippie>>>[Excuse me in if am wrong, but how is one broken and yet able to get by with adultry and remarriage within a matter of months? How is TB broken and what is he broken over? The fact that he got caught or the fact that he has finally realized what a heretic he was? I really really want to know TB.]   

As many of you now know, my previous marriage has endured years of unresolved conflicts. I apologize that it has ended in divorce, and I take full responsibility for my part for the ending of the marriage. I realize that my silence and decisions have caused many of you to feel hurt, confused, and offended. The reason for the silence was for my need of healing, creating a restoration process under a team of qualified leaders, much needed rest after the Lakeland Outpouring, repentance, and the divorce process.

I have now relocated to Fort Mill, South Carolina and have entered into my restoration and healing process under Rick Joyner, Jack Deere, and Bill Johnson. I am confident of this one thing—that God is faithful to His promise and my hope is to be fully restored, strengthened, healed, and to learn from all the mistakes I have made along the way.
    Thank you friends and partners for your continued prayers, encouragement, and love. I am committed to the work of the Holy Spirit and confident that the good men around me will help me be restored first as a man, as a husband, and ultimately to fulfill God’s call on my life.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[I do hope you have repented TB. I do hope you are able to stand in front of the thousands you deceived and let them know what a fake you were. Not just in your marriage, but in the things you taught. The occult, the witchcraft, the manipulations, lies you told, the embellishments, the setting up of an image of Jesus that was a lie. All of it. THEN I will believe you have been restored unto the truth.]

Those of you who were touched by the Lakeland Outpouring do not lose your encouragement. What happened there was from God, and Todd is a true servant of God.

Redeemed hippie>>>[He STILL will not call it what it was; an apostate heretical movement! Why oh why, should any of us believe a word he says? This angers me. How stupid do they think we are? It is the very same spirit that is at work in the political arena and they do not see it?! They have learned NOTHING. They have came to the light on NOTHING.]

He has made some mistakes, and he is trying to get his life back in order, and you can be confident that he will. Throughout the Bible, many of the greatest heroes in it also made some of the worst mistakes. King David, possibly the greatest hero in the Bible after Jesus, made one of the most horrible mistakes, not only committing adultery, but murdering the husband of the woman he committed it with. God knew that was going to happen with David when He called him, and He loved David before, during, and afterward.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[To even compare TB with King David is a stretch of the imagination. TB is no where anything like king David. King David REPENTED. We still have yet to see if TB is going to repent for his abominations.] 

One of the remarkable events in the Bible is that the Lord then used Bathsheba to bring forth the heir to the throne, Solomon, and she is part of the genealogy of Jesus. It still stretches me, but we need stretching in the grace of God. At the same time, we must balance it with how God hates divorce, and it is one of the scourges of our times that is tragically hurting many, many people. Marriage is under such an assault now because it is so important. However, legalism will not overcome lawlessness.

Redeemed Hippie>>>[Joyners' way of saying if anyone demands too much accountability or too much change, then we are legalistic.]

This situation and similar ones that almost every church and family are now being faced with is one that we need answers for. We cannot run from Him, but must run to Him with our need. 

Many of Todd’s friends and former partners have asked if and how they might help to rebuild and establish Fresh Fire USA, which has recently relocated from Abbotsford, BC Canada and is now based at Heritage International Ministries in Fort Mill, SC. Donations can now be made to Fresh Fire USA at the following address:

Fresh Fire USA
C/O MorningStar  Fellowship Church
375 Star Light Dr.
Fort Mill, SC 29715

    Make checks out to Fresh Fire USA, or if you would like to donate by credit card to help in rebuilding Fresh Fire USA, call 1-800-542-0278

Redeemed Hippie>>>[Ahh, there it is. Don't forget to send a check to them so they can continue to prop up their little idol.

For anyone who may believe I judge TB harshly. I judge his teachings and his actions as being occultic. Just because someone can name the name of Jesus does not mean they follow the real Jesus. The whole world is under the sway of the wicked one. Christians are not exempt from being deceived. An image of Jesus was set up during this movement that was heretical. Few be that call it so. I will have no reason to believe Tod Bentley is a true christian until he comes out and confesses his occult practices just like I had to do back in 1976.]